I realize now, that I worded the question in the survey very poorly. Asking questions is an art, and sometimes you don’t know what you’ve really asked, until you start getting answers. The correct answer, of course, is a combination. As Christy said,
Christy Tucker said, April 3, 2007 @ 9:49 am
The crux of my argument is that we should teach it as a separate class AND integrate it into the curriculum, rather than treating it as an either/or proposition.
I was actually looking for some opinions about expecting students to learn it themselves, but as Alfred said,
Alfred Thompson said, April 3, 2007 @ 10:02 am
Kids learn some of these applications on their own but seldom learn enough of them. For example they often set page numbers and page breaks manually which defeats much of the advantage word processing software brings. So at some level they need someone to teach them some of the non obvious features.
This is a very good point, but I would suspect that eventually, they would learn the more advanced features in much the same way that many of us did, by starting to ask, “What else can this thing do?” I continue to think about how they learn to play World of Warcraft and The SIMS, and I suspect that much of it is from each other. Can we institute opportunities in our schools where they can learn more from each other? Teaching it, in a traditional sense, costs so much overhead.
Rob Rogers describes what I suspect would be the ideal,
Rob Rogers said, April 3, 2007 @ 7:13 am
5 Years ago we were teaching 10 sections of Computer Applications at the high school, just like you mention above. Now, we have fully integrated it into middle school subject areas. The result, I now have 2 sections only.At this time, these skills and applications are best taught within a discipline. What better way to reinforce the skills than with content that those application skills enhance or fit.
My nagging question continues to be, are all classroom teachers ready or inclined to teach word processing and spreadsheets at the same time they are responsible for teaching reading, math, social studies, or science? Is it fair to them to ask it?
I guess that the more that I engage in these conversations through the web and face-to-face, the more I’m realizing how much the idea of self-teaching is influencing my responses, that “the best thing we can be teaching our children today, is how to teach themselves.”
Floyd Geasland commented that many students still do not have convenient access to technology outside the classroom and others echoed this situation. But I can’t help but believe that the longer we except this as a problem, the longer it will be one. I think that we have to be real, but we also need to come to expect that learners in this day and time, should have at-hand access to contemporary information technologies. It’s a huge community/national/world problem that needs to be solved. But it won’t until we start to expect it!
I like where Patrick went with this conversation,
Patrick said, April 3, 2007 @ 7:31 am
Speaking from a personal standpoint, I would like to see a computer applications class taught, but not from a Microsoft Office standpoint. …Why not use the Comp Apps class to introduce the students to some of the great data mashups out there, or some of the online office suites that this generation might see in their work experiences? Instead of doing away with it, we should use it as a vehicle for change, to teach problem solving skills as the pertain to choosing the best application for a specific endeavor. In this era of unknown problems and uncertain solutions, demonstrating how to find the right app will be a useful skill.
There is so much that is going on right now, that is growing, and coming to define our future, that isn’t getting taught (or learned). Many kids are using Web 2.0 applications, but I do not believe that they understand it. They don’t know why it is important and what it means. It needs to be part of their classroom conversations.
Back to the beginning, I think that most of our students, today, are capable of teaching themselves what they need to know, when it comes to using technology, especially when they can learn it together. Frequently, when they are engaged in their outside-the-classroom information experience, they are practicing what John Finch called, and Kathy Schrock echoed as “Just in time, just enough” learning.
John Finch said, April 3, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Like anything, “just in time, just enough†is the way that people should learn software applications and this learning should be done in context. When we learn to drive, the most important thing is the driving! We familiarize ourselves with signs and rules as we watch others drive but we have to actually get behind the wheel to learn to DRIVE.
Kathy Schrock echos, April 3, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
I truly believe technology can only be taught in the context of something meaningful and I love John Finch’s quote above “Like anything, “just in time, just enough†is the way that people should learn software applications and this learning should be done in context.â€
My bottom line, we need to assure that our children have the basic information (literacy) skills, which include the abilities to use technologies necessary to find, evaluate, work, and compellingly express information in order to accomplish meaningful goals. Some of it needs to be taught. But anything that we can facilitate their teaching to themselves, we should do.
Finally, I have to repost Jennifer Wagners comment, because it deserves it.
Jennifer Wagner said, April 3, 2007 @ 9:23 am
My students learned to how to use Excel by having an introductory game of Battleship. That is how they learned cells and columns. We all had fun — and we learned.My students learned how to rewrite a fairy tale by using the thesaurus tool in Word. And my students created their own business plans — presented powerpoints, budgets, webpages, spreadsheets, and more — and then we had 3 “venture capitalists†come in to hear the presentations and awarded $$$ (ie — scores) based on their belief of the business.
My students created parks in roller coaster tycoon (or zoo tycoon) and keep spreadsheets to track their company assets.
My students word documented their experiences in Oregon Trail, their days in Logical Journey, and they used a spreadsheet to keep track of their missions in Carmen San Diego.
The funny thing — I really don’t ever remember saying “Open (gill in the name of a Office program) and we are going to learn how to….blah blah blah. The program was only a means to the end………
Even now — with the Great Egg Roll 2007 going on — using Excel is not the main objective. Entering data to be analyzed later is.
Grins — I am not sure I am really answering your question — but it did make me think of how I used programs.
David, You mention how difficult it is to ask a question. I think that this is one of the most important skills that students should be learning in school. For, if we don’t ask the questions we can’t find the answers. If we can’t figure out what to ask so that we can make our work easier and more productive we won’t be able to understand the utility of modern technological tools.
By the way, an extension to this thought is that I fully agree with John Finch’s comment above and below (but didn’t even know it until I read his statement) “Like anything, “just in time, just enough†is the way that people should learn software applications and this learning should be done in context.” Questions are what determines the time and the necessary amount to learn.
Andrew Pass
http://www.pass-ed.com/blogger.html
Integrating is the name of the game.As much as possible technology should be flawlessly meshed with the other curriculum. I tell my students that we are writing to communicate and the vehicle is a Wiki or a blog. Yes, I directly have to teach how to use it the first time through, but the next time they help each other.
David —
You know how we do it at SLA… We stream English, History and Science so that the kids take those courses as a cohort. In 9th grade, we also include their elective rotation which includes a semester-long tech integration class. That’s taught by a tech teacher (Marcie) who works with the subject area teachers to look for places to integrate and teach the tech skills — many of which are application-based — through the content of the “academic” classes. This allows the teachers to use the tech without having to be experts themselves, it allows us to really teach the tech skills without worrying about the balance of content v. tech-skills, and it gives the kids the chance to really see how these tech skills are transformative.
But I’ll take it one step further. We have to be careful about teaching applications, because applications change. Let’s teach tech literacy, and teach kids to do graphic manipulation where Photoshop is a tool, not an end… we need to teach kids to use these tools, yes, but we need to make sure the kids understand that the specific tool is merely a means to an end, and merely *one* means to that end.
I teach Technology in a K-5 school, as part of the specials rotation. Most of our students do not have access to computers at home, and their parents often do not use computers at work or use them in a very limited manner. This is the first year for technology class at my school.
At the beginning of the year 3rd-5th could take AR test, play some games on websites, and open a program if the short cut was on the desktop. K-2nd could barely move the mouse, and most couldn’t double click.
Now my K-2nd graders can log on, go to their grade’s folder on the server, access activities I’ve put there for them. 2nd grade has even typed and printed short paragraphs, with some formatting.
3rd – 5th can log on, access material in their class file, type short papers and scripts with formatting, save in their class file on the server, search the web for good information, create a PowerPoint that doesn’t make the audience feel like poking their eyes out, import photographs they have taken with a digital camera, and 3rd and 5th have created movies. 4th grade students are working on their movie.
If I told 4th grade “Today we are going to learn how to make a paragraph with a hanging indent†they would be begging their teacher to go to PE instead of Technology. They learned how to make a paragraph with a hanging indent, because it makes the script easier to read. Since the scripts are about demonstrations like making fresh water float on top of salt water, they are begging to come to Technology.
How to use computer classes bore me to tears. Technology is a tool we use to acquire, process, and communicate knowledge. It can’t be taught in isolation.
I teach in a small private K-12 school. Currently, we require our students to take a computer course in the 8th grade and then again in high school. Our goal is to make sure our students are equipped to use not just the Office products, but general computer use as well as how to use the Internet as a resource to boost their learning. Within the next few years, our 9th-12th grades classes will be splitting off into a separate building. I am preparing a proposal to our administration to allow me to teach the 8th grade computer classes and 8th Grade English. I cannot think of a better place to mesh the two classes.
Hello, David,
One of the issues that also needs to be considered is the relationship between information literacy and critical thinking skills — for example, to adapt from Jennifer’s comment that you reposted above, let’s say students are learning about the Lewis and Clarke expedition, or about the forced Cherokee relocation, the Trail of Tears. If students have an assignment where they needed to track a historical figure on the journey, what should they keep track of? Food consumed? Miles covered per day/week? How does this information translate into a deeper understanding of the different political and social contexts of these events?
This is where the critical thinking comes into play. WRT technology, these issues could be addressed equally well with a spreadsheet, a text doc, a blog, a wiki, or a mindmap. For different students, a different technology will make more sense. It isn’t realistic to expect every classroom teacher to have direct knowledge of the tools at this level, but it is possible to have tech support available to teachers who understand the implications of using different tools, and who understand learning styles, and who understand why a spreadsheet will make more sense to one student and a mind map to another.
Really, these are two separate but related issues: what questions do you need to ask? And, what tools help individual students respond meaningfully to good questions.
Cheers,
Bill
Integrating tech in the classroom is defintely the trend, and many of the tools are well within reach of users to learn. At a certain point, however learning to use some software appliations properly (most effectively) should be an objective.
How many people ue MS word or any other word processing software and don’t know what styles are, or why you should use them? How many people use PowerPoint and have no idea what a Master Slide is? These features are rucial to creating professional documents with efficiency and it doesn’t matter it it’s made by Ms or Corel or Adobe or Sun…they are integral components of many types of software.
Learning somthing about HTML and web design is a good idea, too, even if you are always using templates and GUI editors. It helps you troubleshoot, and put those widgets right where you want them. Many teachers, however, don’t know how to use the technology, and while self-learning is great, more PD that centers around how teacher will actually use the application and practice doing it is needed.
I also think that technology should be taught as a subject.. what is it, how does it work, where did it come from, how does it change, how does it change us, or we change it; what effect does it have on all of us? These point an be addressed in other disciplines, but often aren’t.
If there is a separate technology class, especially in a school with limited number of computers, then it is particularly important to collaborate with other subject matter teachers to bring relevent content to the applications being used.
And don’t forget.. it would serve most of us and our students well to learn to use the keyboard (right). It’s wonderful to use pictures and make videos, but there comes a time when you need to write – like now! They will often need to enter data and one won’t always be in an environment where you can use voice-recognition software. I think that keyboarding should be taught before students enter high school. The earlier they are going to be using a computer, the earlier it should be part of their day.