Four AP Tests being Dropped

Photo from Flickr -- Last ExamI’ve been in the air all morning (still there at this writing), so I do not know if this has hit the edublogosphere yet. But I discovered in my e-mail a IP message referencing an article from yesterday’s Washington Post.

The College Board told U.S. teachers in an e-mail yesterday that four underenrolled Advanced Placement courses will be eliminated after the 2008-09 academic year in the first significant retrenchment of the
college preparatory program in its 53-year history.The courses being cut — Italian, Latin literature, French literature and computer science AB — are among the least popular in the AP portfolio. … The eliminated classes are “all less commonly taught disciplines in high schools,” said Trevor Packer, vice president of the College Board for AP. “And they’re under fire sometimes,” he said, in school systems more focused on core subjects.

Trustees of the New York-based College Board decided to eliminate the courses March 27 at a meeting in Reston, Packer said. The decision was communicated at 5 p.m. yesterday via e-mail to 2,519 teachers of the affected subjects and to AP program coordinators. ((de Vise, Daniel. AP Language, Computer Courses Cut.” Washington Post 4 Apr 2008, Online: http://snurl.com/23k04 [www_washingtonpost_com] .))

The IP subscriber who posted the e-mail wrote:

It’s well known that the number of university students choosing computer science as a major has been declined significantly in the past six years. Many organizations, including the the Computing Research Association, have developed strategies to address this by enlarging the pipeline. A part of this is working to increase interest in the field in high schools and middle school. Eliminating the computer science AP test will discourage high schools from offering computer science courses and their students from taking them. Here’s a story from the Washington Post. ((Finin, Tim. “College Board eliminates computer science AP test.” E-mail to IP Mailing List.5 Apr 2008.))

I’m of two minds on this. On the one hand, I’m not sure how much a Computer Science AP exam encourages high schools students to pursue CS studies. To my knowledge, it is basically a programming exam — only one aspect of CS (Please correct me if I am wrong here). I’ve heard in several conversations that colleges are losing confidence in the AP exams, as an acceptance and placement tool, because they are discovering that AP students, by and large, are taught to pass the test, not necessarily taught good Computer Science, Literature, or Mathematics. So if these observations are accurate, then I do not feel any real loss.

On the other hand, I am concerned with Tim Finin’s lament about declining enrollment of U.S. students in University Computer Science programs. I remain convinced that the problem has much more to do with how we teach computer science than the tests we give at the end. Of course the tests contribute significantly to our pedagogies, so the question that occurs to me is,

“What would computer science curriculum (k-12) look like, without a test, and with the aim of encouraging more students to pursue computer technology careers.”

But then my third mind says, “Hey, we don’t even know what computer science is going to look like 10 years from now. Computers may be programming themselves, redesigning their own circuitry, and growing their own memory. [photo ((“Last Exam.” Y-A-N. 13 May 2005. 5 Apr 2008 <http://flickr.com/photos/y-a-n/13760894/>.)) ]

E-mail Author: Tim Finin, Computer Science & Electrical Engineering, Univ of Maryland Baltimore County, 1000 Hilltop Cir, Baltimore MD 21250. finin@umbc.edu http://umbc.edu/~finin 410-455-3522 fax:-3969 http://ebiquity.umbc.edu

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17 thoughts on “Four AP Tests being Dropped”

  1. David,

    A few thoughts:

    1) I don’t think that the AP CS test being canceled is the only CS test offered by the AP. If it were, I’d be celebrating – not because the test focuses on programming, but on the wrong concepts, moves too fast and favors boys who love algebra.

    The AP Computer Science test(s) has/have not been good for anyone.

    2) Let’s get rid of the stupid tests and their accompanying test-prep cram courses all together. They are wrong on a zillion levels:

    • Create needless stratification and competition in high school

    • Focus on preparation and winning vs. learning something

    • Inflexible curriculum that is centralized and never seems to change

    • Colleges don’t care and want to get paid for units taken

    • Some of the finest public and private schools in America are abandoning the AP while the President and Urban commandants are embracing them. Personally, I side with the Scarsdale Public Schools and the Crossroads School in L.A. on all educational matters over President Bush.

  2. David… I am a little sad that you are using one of the most disturbing rhetorical tools of some lazy blogger: repeating myths about subjects using the “there are some conversations that suggest” line without doing your research. I have no doubt that those four exams are probably losing interest among students (French literature, for example, is losing students while Chinese language is increasing dramatically) but any “conversations” you here are those ill-informed without research. AP tests are incredible indicators for college success. Older research confirms that passing an AP test is a great indicator for college success. Newer research says that just taking an AP class is a great indicator of college success. Are there people that just teach to the test? Sure. But by and large AP teachers (pushed by the ever-evolving AP curriculum that has been revising tests to encourage more thinking skills than test-taking skills) are teaching kids to think and pushing them to excel. I would suggest that you read any of Jay Matthew’s work on the use of AP revolutionizing schools (he is the educational reporter for the Washington Post).

  3. I’m a little sad that AP Italian, Latin literature is being cut from the Advanced Placement courses by the College Board. Surprisingly one of the few bright spots in my memory of high school is my Latin class. Oh yes I struggled in that class and was close to failing till Mr. Waters and I struck a deal. I would come to class each day, attempt all the homework, take every test and attend the State Latin forum. If I did this he would pass me, I passed as I recall by about 1 point.
    But what I learned in Mr. Waters’ class has stuck with me for 30 years. A Roman soldiers drinking song (I guess we couldn’t teach that now). A love of classical mythology (translated into English) and a thirst to learn for the sake of learning not for a grade. I know that Mr. Waters would also be sad that Latin is being cut but I wanted him to know and all the other Latin teachers out there that I really enjoyed my high school Latin classes and still remember some of what I learned.

  4. Thanks, Jason for your comment. I will go ahead and mention that the “conversations” I referred to were with administrators at two prep schools, whom, it seems, would be fairly connected with university admission practices and trends.

    But, as you rightly state, declines in the confidence of AP tests is not quantified here — so I accurately described the sources of “conversations.” Had I not included that information and its less than firm backing, I and other readers may not have learned about Jay Matthew’s work.

    So, again, thanks!

  5. Just a note, AP Computer Science AB is the higher level course. Computer Science A would still be around. Just thought I’d clarify that in case anyone thought the entire CS offering was going to be dropped.

    On another note, I find the AP CS curriculum and test to encourage critical thought and not just test-taking skills – so I agree with Jason there. The problem I have with AP CS is its standardization on Java. It’s arguable that there are better languages to standardize on and arguable that standardization is not even necessary. My understanding of the IB program, for instance, allows schools/teachers to choose what language they wish to use to pursue the understanding of programming concepts.

  6. Just a note, AP Computer Science AB is the higher level course. Computer Science A would still be around. Just thought I’d clarify that in case anyone thought the entire CS offering was going to be dropped.

    On another note, I find the AP CS curriculum and test to encourage critical thought and not just test-taking skills – so I agree with Jason there. The problem I have with AP CS is its standardization on Java. It’s arguable that there are better languages to standardize on and arguable that standardization is not even necessary. My understanding of the IB program, for instance, allows schools/teachers to choose what language they wish to use to pursue the understanding of programming concepts.

  7. There have been a few blog posts about the AB exam being dropped (I wrote about it myself) and there has been a huge amount of chatter about it on the APCS and SIGCSE mailing lists. Many people believe that of the two CS exams the wrong one was dropped.
    Yes the AP exam is largerly about programming but it is the base for much more. Dropping the programming part and “skipping” it would be like dropping arithmatic and skipping right to geometry.
    Yes there are problems with the exam (I would agree that it has too much of a focus on Java for example) but the answer is not to drop it but to fix it.
    All in all it is really a complex issue that is being widely debated and discussed in the CS education space.

  8. This is the reason that I blog. It is because of what comes from the conversation that ensues. That’s where I, and hopefully others, learn.

    I want to drop back out to the larger point of my post, that there is something about the way that we are teaching technology that seems to discourage youngsters from wanting to pursue the field. I understand that there is much in the teaching of computer science that develops critical and logical thought. It involves traceable thought pathways that require self assessment. They either work, or they don’t.

    It seems to me that teaching computer science, or computer literacy for that matter, may be the mistake. We teach “Technology Operations & Concepts,” and we teach “programming” — and these are things that should be learned. But I think that the goal should be to help students at all ages learn to use technology to do useful and interesting things. We shouldn’t be teaching them to operate the computer, but how to make the computer do things. In this endeavor, students come to understand that they need to learn concepts of operation, but at a more meaningful and perhaps even much deeper level.

    A perfect example, I believe, is Logo, and what this has and might continue to evolve into. It’s not just using the computer to conduct research, write reports, and deliver presentations. It’s about making the prevailing contemporary information technologies do interesting and attention earning things.

    To me, this is the major fallacy in how we are pursuing the integration of technology, that we are looking for evidence that it helps us do school, rather than considering how it will help prepare children for their future.

  9. I have no problem giving a particular language much focus in a high school course so long as the language’s basic tool set is FOSS and appropriate to convey an understanding of the curriculum. For instance, I’d be against using Microsoft Visual Basic and its Studio Express package (proprietary freeware) just as I was against using Java before Sun applied the GNU GPL (which Alfred Thompson “can’t live with“). I’d be wary using Logo for technical reasons in that currently, the AP CS curriculum emphasizes the OO paradigm. I don’t think that many Logo implementations support OOP. Perhaps Dave or Gary Stager could enlighten us on that – I get the impression they are more familiar with Logo than I am so I could be mistaken.

    Obviously, programming students should explore multiple languages, but the tools they explore in an educational institution should all be FOSS. When they are not, then the institution behaving more like a training center, not a school.

  10. I teach APCS and was disheartened when the decision was made to drop the AB exam. I have found that several of my students have never been exposed to the critical thinking aspect of computer programming prior to taking my AP course. I take slight umbrage with Gary’s notion that the APCS favors boys. The girls that I have had in my CS classes have outscored the boys every year (and I am at a close to 50/50 split in terms of gender.) In addition I had a lovely note from one of my graduating senior girls last year where she said “I loved taking Java. It was the only class I took in high school where I could feel the wheels in my head turning every day.” While I agree that the AP test focuses too much on the Java language, I think that there is plenty of free space in the curriculum to let creative teachers explore and inspire students. The female student from above is now in college majoring in CS. I would be willing to bet money that she never would have considered majoring in it without taking APCS.

  11. Dave… I would add one other thought about the larger AP issue. You mention talking about prep schools and their movement away from AP. That’s an interesting discussion and one that started in my district when a New York Times article was published talking about the same: some prep schools feel that the AP program is too rigid and doesn’t help their students really in the college admissions game and thus it makes sense from moving away from that. I would argue that it is one thing for a well-known prep school to drop AP as the academic reputation of those schools, deserved or undeserved, is likely to get their top students in the schools of their choice. I teach in a larger high school in a rural western state. If we dropped AP, it would certainly mean that our kids would be less competitive to the hyper-competitive schools as our regular curriculum can’t compare in the eyes of admission officers. Plus… let’s be honest here… part of the pull of AP for my students is the opportunity for a classes aimed at a high level having discussions and engaging in scholarship that simply wouldn’t happen in the regular education classroom, even in a skillfully taught classroom. I had asked our state education office once about available research on “honors” vs “AP” offerings and she claimed that such research was nearly impossible because the title “honors” means absolutely nothing because no standards exist. Criticize the AP test if you will, but passing it generally means that you can recall in-depth information for the multiple choice portion of the test, analyze literature or documents, and construct meaningful arguments in the form of an essay.

    Thanks for the discussion. 🙂

  12. As a student, I am disappointed with this change. I took the AP CS AB exam back in 2003, and now I’m studying for my master’s degree in the field. My score on that exam got me out of taking the first semester of programming at my university, which would not have been the case if I had taken the A exam – that exam only counted for a lower-level programming course not intended for majors.

    Yes, it was mostly a programming exam, however there was also a fairly significant data structures component and a brief intro to algorithm analysis using Big-O notation. But programming is always one of the first topics introduced to CS students at the undergrad level, and being ahead of the game in that meant I could take an additional elective later on. Without the AB exam, I may not have been able to take that course in artificial intelligence, or software design patterns, or wireless network security.

    Even for people who didn’t intend to go into computer science, the course was quite beneficial. A friend of mine who took the AP class with me went into aerospace engineering. That discipline requires a fair amount of programming, and he was quite a bit ahead of his peers in their computational courses because of his previous AP experience.

  13. I’m curious which commenters have worked with the two CS tests. I got 5’s on both during the last years before the switch to Java, and I felt very prepared for my university Computer Science courses (until I realized that programming was an eternal sentence to a cubicle and changed majors).

    Nobody says, “English lit. is good, but really the students need to learn to read office memos.” Why, then, is it OK to say “the programming courses should teach general computer skills and focus less on programming”? Or “the programming courses should teach students how to use function calls to make a robot turn left and right instead of using teaching the algebra-like foundations that all of programming is based on?”

    But I’m bitter and off-topic. 😉

  14. I think that the dropping of a couple of the classes could be a great idea. One reason for me is that it might help focus on more of the other subjects that are more videly used by students. Also there could be other of the same classes that are offered they just dropped these ones because there was not enough students wanted to take these classes. So in the end dropping these classes might not be a bad idea it could actually help the school in the end.

  15. I hope that the AP curriculum moves away from focusing on any one programming language. Currently, indeed, the AP test is mostly about OO programming — but there are other programming paradigms out there. Students should have an opportunity to learn to think within these other paradigms as well, to cover CS more broadly and perhaps less deeply than the current AP curriculum does. (Although, I think most students can handle a course that keeps the depth and adds some breadth if it’s well designed.)

    I’ve had students who, after learning java, have immense difficulties switching to a functional language such as scheme. They often resist (thinking that java is “the” language), and some are utterly confounded by a language in which you can do powerful things without variables, without loops. Their classmates who have little or no OOP experience, have fewer difficulties. I think the java-first students encounter difficulties because they’ve been led so far down the OO path without taking any side trips that force the brain to think in different ways.

    CS is such a great area of study because it requires modes of thinking that many other subject areas don’t (or only indirectly). The narrow AP curriculum has detracted from that. Now might be an opportunity to boost the AP curriculum out of its single-minded OOP rut.

    (just to establish creds: I’ve taught AP in pascal, c++ and java and other courses in a bunch of other languages)

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